15. Growing Your Show & Biz Through Podcast Guesting w/ Natalie Koussa

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So today you guys, I have a

very special guest for you.

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I'm super excited to talk

all things podcast guesting.

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I know that a lot of you are, wanting

to grow , your current podcast and grow

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your audience and Get more visibility.

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And this is always a , really

great way to do that.

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So I have miss Natalie Kusa.

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I hope I'm saying your

last name correctly.

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It's flawless.

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I love it.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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every time I have a guest on it.

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It's like, I never ask in advance.

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And then when I do it, I'm just

like winging it, but I get it right.

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So.

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So happy to have you Natalie and

talk all things podcast, guesting and

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what you're doing in your business,

because I absolutely love it.

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So can you just start off by just

telling us a little bit about you

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and your business and what you do?

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Yeah, sure.

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So I'm Natalie.

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Hi, the through line of

my business is messaging.

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I'm your messaging BFF.

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I just love.

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All things messaging.

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So I have two main offers.

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One is the Speakeasy, which is

all about growing your business

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by speaking on podcasts.

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And of course the key to speaking on

podcasts in ways that actually work

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is having really stellar messaging.

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And then I have Luminous,

which is my mastermind.

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And it's all about offer

messaging, sales messaging, but

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that's the link between the two.

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I love that.

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And, I think the thing that

really Attracts me to your work.

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And that really resonates with me is it's

not just about being a podcast guest.

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, I remember when we first

connected and you're just like,

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it's not just about pitching.

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I don't teach pitching.

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I'm not just teaching pitching.

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, and I know now why you were

like really adamant about that.

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It's because that's literally all that's.

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It's mostly out there.

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It's like, it's 2, 000 a month here.

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Let me pitch you to all these

podcasts, but there's not a lot

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of work done around your messaging

and refining that and, and how it's

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really going to tie back to building

your authority and your credibility.

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So can you tell me a little bit about.

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Why your philosophy about why messaging

is the key and so important , when

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you are being a podcast guest?

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Yeah, sure.

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So to be clear, I do teach pitching, but I

don't teach only pitching and it's because

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Anyone can get booked on podcasts, Angie.

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Like, you know this as well as I do.

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Anyone can get a list of 100 podcasts

and do the little featured thing on

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their website and all that good stuff.

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But it really depends why you

want to speak on podcasts.

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If you want to speak on podcasts

because you want to grow your business,

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you want to grow your podcast, if

you want to call in really aligned

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clients, Your messaging needs to be

on point because your messaging is

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what differentiates you between all

the other millions of people that are

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offering exactly the same thing as you.

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So if you're truly playing a numbers game,

sure, go ahead and just pitch yourself and

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get booked on tons and tons of podcasts.

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I think the only reason I would

recommend that is if you're an author

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and you're building, you need a really

big platform to get a publishing deal

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or just to get your book into as many

hands as possible, then I think that

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can be a really good strategy for you.

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But if you are selling.

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One to one work, high end done for you

packages, you know, most of my clients are

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working really closely with their clients.

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You only need a handful of clients a

year and you want those clients to be

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super aligned with what it is that you

offer and that's where you're messaging.

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That's how you communicate with that level

of client that wants to know that you

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really get them and you get the nuance

they're working with and you understand

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their industry and you can get kind of

results they want and all that good stuff.

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That's.

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All tied up in your messaging.

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Yeah.

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And I love that you said what is

the reason why you're wanting to

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be on other podcasts and , what

are your goals and it just.

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I think it's so important.

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And I talk about this.

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I think I just wrote a

post about this today.

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I've been like a content creating

machine lately for some reason.

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I've just, I woke up, I rolled

over and I'm like, into my notes.

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Oh, I'm so jealous.

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It has unlocked.

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Something has unlocked.

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Cause I feel like I have been silent for

months and I now I'm just like, I got it.

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And it's because I'm having a shift

in, in my messaging, going on.

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But so I think.

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One of the things for me when you

are starting to when you're coming

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into the podcast space in general,

this is something that I talk about

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with starting your own podcast.

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It's what are your goals?

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Like what is it that you're

truly trying to accomplish?

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Because there are a lot of

different ways to go about it.

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Like you said, if you are like

purely in this for the numbers and you

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just want to be on as many podcasts.

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As you possibly can.

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There was a guy in a one of these

podcast groups the other day that

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was like, I've been on 747 podcasts.

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Here's what I've learned.

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And I was like, holy

shit, like 747 podcasts.

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Like it was some, it might not have

been that number exactly, but it

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was some crazy number like that.

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And I was just like.

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Whoa.

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And I think that was the

strategy behind it for him.

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Right.

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And so I think that there's a

lot to be said for being really

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intentional and knowing what it is

that you're trying to accomplish and

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what you're trying to accomplish.

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Like what's the in, what's the end

game or what's the six month game or

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what's the, what's the year long game?

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Where do you want to be?

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What is it that you're

really trying to accomplish?

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And understanding that there are

different strategies out there.

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There are different things for you

and things that you need to do.

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Like when you, if you want to launch

a podcast and you're just wanting to,

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rank in the top 10 when you launch your

podcast, there is an absolute different

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strategy that I'm going to give you.

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Then if you're just telling me, I really

just want to launch my podcast so that.

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The people who are in my world can

experience me in a different way.

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And I don't want it to be a big fanfare.

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I'm gonna give you two different

strategies, a hundred percent.

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So tell me, since the people who are

listening, majority of the people who

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listen to, , this podcast are podcasters

who have existing podcasts or people

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who want to start their podcast and a

big thing for them is podcast growth.

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So what have you seen . In what

you do, how can that tie back to

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being able to grow your podcast

from being on other podcasts?

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Yeah, sure.

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So I think even before you start

your podcast, if you've got aspiring

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podcasters in the audience, guesting

on other people's podcasts can be such

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an amazing stepping stone into starting

your own podcast, because You get all

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the good bits of being on a podcast

without any of the responsibility

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behind the scenes of the editing and the

promotion and all of that kind of stuff.

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So I think I see a lot of people within

the Speakeasy, my podcast guesting

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program, they come in and they tell me

I've got an ambition to start my podcast,

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but let me start with my messaging with

speaking on somebody else's podcast.

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Let me grow my confidence.

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Let me just get the hang of speaking

into a mic and making it feel normal.

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And then let me go and start my podcast.

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So I think that's one way.

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And then another way is, it's growing

your network in two main ways, right?

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Like it's growing your network

with other, um, hosts so they

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can become your future guests.

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You can do podcast guesting swaps.

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You are, it's basically doing what people

do when they have loads of coffee chats.

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It's doing that, turning

it into marketing.

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So you're.

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Building a network with other hosts.

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And at the same time, you're getting in

front of all of these listeners that are

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already listening to an established show.

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And then you mention, Oh, and on my

podcast, we do dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

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They're already podcast listeners, right?

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So you're not trying to pull

them off Instagram where they're

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like, no, no, I just want to

scroll while I'm watching Netflix.

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Like that's, that's all

I'm doing right now.

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They're actively choosing to find podcasts

that they're really interested in.

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So when you mention yours.

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They're gonna be like, Oh, amazing.

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Let me add that podcast to my list.

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So next time I'm out for a

run, I can listen to you.

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Or next time I'm folding the

laundry or whenever it is.

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Because podcasts, people that listen

to podcasts, and I know this is true

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because I've heard you say it, Angie,

and I'm also a massive podcast listener.

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We have moments in our days and in our

routines where we think to ourselves,

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what podcast do I want to listen to today?

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And then we go looking for that material.

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So then we're really listening.

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It's just a whole different level of

connection to social media or, you

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know, some of the more traditional

marketing strategies for podcasts.

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Yeah.

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And, the biggest thing that I

want to note out of that is.

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We are meeting people where they

already, like, we're meeting

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people already on the podcast app.

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, you should share , your

podcast on social media.

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That's great, but if we can

meet them, we know that they

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are already podcast listeners.

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They are already on the app.

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They, like, most podcast listeners

are always looking for the next.

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thing to listen to, to be honest,

like we're always like, okay, , what's

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next, and to be honest, from the

perspective of someone who listens

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to podcasts, it's hard to find new

podcasts to listen to sometimes.

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And, and the best way to find them is

by recommendations from people that

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we already know, like, and trust.

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So if somebody is already listening

to the show and then they bring

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on, they're like, this is my.

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My guest, this is someone who's cool.

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Hey, this person.

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And you find out they have a podcast too.

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You're more likely to come

and follow you as well.

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And that's a really good

and good growth strategy.

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And like you said, it's also building

that network in podcasting your

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community and your network is.

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Everything.

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It's like, it means so much.

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It's such a powerful thing, your

community, building a community around

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your existing podcast and building

that network with other podcasters is

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so beneficial to your podcast growth

and so beneficial to even just like

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knowledge, like we share knowledge,,

we share opportunities, we share

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guests, we share things that are all

going to help us, , Grow together.

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So I really, I really like, that

you brought that up, but let's

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meet them where they're at.

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And I think that's really important for

people to understand how they can use

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podcast guesting to grow their audience.

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So what would you say?

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There are a lot of people in my audience

who want to be guests on podcasts.

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And I'm telling you, I have such a love,

hate relationship with podcast from

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the perspective of, well, actually

it goes both ways, but from the

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perspective of someone who teaches.

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Podcasting and how to grow your,

influence and your credibility and

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sell your offers from your podcast.

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And then just having on anybody on

your podcast as guests, that doesn't

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make any sense for your podcast.

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It drives me.

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It drives me insane.

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It drives me insane.

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Like this podcast interview

right now is so purposeful.

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It's valuable.

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You don't do exactly the same

thing that I do, but it's such

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an adjacent thing to what I do.

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My guests are going to get a ton of value.

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You're going to get

value from being on here.

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Like it just, it, it

works very, very well.

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So it's worth doing this.

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It makes sense.

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But what I see a lot of people, even

with guesting, it, it drives me bonkers.

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That they're just like saying yes and

just wanting to be on everyone's podcast.

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Okay.

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And like, I'll see a thread.

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. And these threads drive

me crazy in these groups.

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And they're like, I got a podcast about

such and such who wants to be a guest.

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And then they're just,

and I'm like, how is this?

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How you're vetting your guests?

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Like, how is this?

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But anyway, I digress.

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But I also think there has

to be a smart way for you to.

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Look at it when you're first starting

out and you're like, okay, I want to

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be a podcast guest and, and I am in

this place, , Natalie, just so you

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know, I'm in this place where I'm

wanting to go on like podcast tour.

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I, I really want to lean into

spending majority of my time,

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my marketing being on guests.

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Be a podcast guest and actually

podcasting on my podcast.

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Like if I could just shut everything

out and just do that, that's

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literally what I want to do.

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So as someone who's just sort of

starting out, and I've been on podcasts

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before, but never super intentionally.

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I'm always just asked to

be on people's podcasts.

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And then I'm like, okay, this makes sense.

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I'll be on it.

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But never really super intentionally,

where do you start to find these

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podcasts that make sense for you?

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Where do you start or is it that

you do start just being on being

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in your random Facebook group and

saying, Hey, I talk about this.

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Who's got a podcast and just

going out there and practicing.

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Is that like where you just start or

is there more intentionality that you

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should do when you're starting out?

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So for some people, if you are the kind

of person that feels like you want to

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do podcast guesting, but it feels really

nervous, or, you know, you just, you

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just like, Oh, I don't know about this.

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Yes, I would say just accept any offers

that come your way respond to those

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random threads, get booked on a couple

of podcasts, ideally ones that not huge,

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you know, huge numbers of people listen

to, and just use them as a practice.

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But for someone like you, Angie, no, like

you, you don't need to be wasting your

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for somebody that is ready to get really

intentional about, okay, which podcasts

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are really going to be worth my time and

are going to fulfill all that criteria

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that Angie's just said, like bring value

to the listeners, calling people that

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I actually want to be in my community

around my business, all that good stuff.

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I think the one thing to really be

looking at beyond are the listeners.

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going to be interested in your

topic and likely to become clients,

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like all of that, hopefully

kind of goes without saying.

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I think the one thing to look

at is how much trust is there

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between the listeners and the host.

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Because when there's really high trust

between listeners and the host, what

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happens is that transfer of trust.

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So the listeners really trust the

host, because the host has earned

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their trust right, like over the last

few months or years or however long

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the episode, the sorry the podcast

has been running for listeners.

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Become loyal and they, they learn

to expect a certain level of value

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or funniness or entertainment

or vulnerability or whatever

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it is, whatever the reasons are

they listen to that podcast.

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And they know that the host is

only going to bring on guests

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that match that level of quality.

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So that's the kind of podcast.

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And to me, that's way more important

than topic or ranking or like you just

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said, , you can game ranking, like anyone

can have a good ranking podcast, pretty

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much, you know, you can do a Facebook ads.

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It doesn't necessarily mean that the

quality of the conversations are there.

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So you want to look at trust and they're

the podcasts that you want to be pitching.

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I love that.

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And as you're saying that, I'm

like, I think my people trust me.

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. They do . I'm, I'm one

of your people, Angie.

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I trust you.

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We do, we do

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Trust me, because, , and I love that.

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I think that's a deeper conversation

to even have with, with people who are.

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podcasters and have their own show.

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It's like, how do you create

that trust and that level of,

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and get these loyal people?

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Because then, I think I read a statistic,

, once and podcast stats are wild.

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So like, like you, you have to take

them with a grain of salt always.

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Cause they are, they are wild.

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They vary wildly.

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It's very hard to really nail down, like.

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Really good statistics, but

I read one once like some of

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them when they're really good.

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I'm like, and I want to believe them.

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I just stick with them.

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I'm like, okay, yes, I just go with it.

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, it was that 63 percent of listeners by

the suggestions of their podcast hosts.

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: 00:16:45

And it that is such a high percentage.

315

: 00:16:48

Of people that will purchase from

you, they'll purchase your thing,

316

: 00:16:53

or they will purchase the thing from

someone else that you're suggesting.

317

: 00:16:56

And it goes back to trust and it goes

back to also the level of connectivity

318

: 00:17:03

that you have on this platform.

319

: 00:17:04

, it's something that just builds this

intimate relationship , with people.

320

: 00:17:09

And, so I love that, but , I want

to say, this also ties into why you

321

: 00:17:14

shouldn't just have any kind of guest

onto your show and stop having just

322

: 00:17:18

random people onto your show because

that diminishes the value and the trust

323

: 00:17:21

that people have in you to deliver the

content that they are most needing, right?

324

: 00:17:26

So that's number one.

325

: 00:17:27

, stop having just random

stuff on your show.

326

: 00:17:30

But the other thing I want to know

is , how can we tell that someone has

327

: 00:17:35

built this trust with their audience?

328

: 00:17:37

So how can I tell that when I'm

looking at this podcast that , they

329

: 00:17:41

have this trust that's built?

330

: 00:17:44

Yeah, so that's trickier but there are

a few kind of indicators that you can

331

: 00:17:48

look at to show you so a few of them are

things like when you open up your podcast

332

: 00:17:54

app, and you're scrolling that podcast.

333

: 00:17:57

What does even the quality of the

Episode titles look like, you know,

334

: 00:18:03

are they just all over the place?

335

: 00:18:04

And all right, one week we

want to talk about this thing.

336

: 00:18:06

Next week, we're talking about

something completely random, like not

337

: 00:18:09

to be down on those podcasts at all.

338

: 00:18:10

There is totally a market for

them, but they're probably not the

339

: 00:18:13

ones that you're wanting to pitch.

340

: 00:18:16

If what you're wanting to do is grow your

business by speaking on those podcasts.

341

: 00:18:20

If you just want to go and have an

amazing conversation, or if what

342

: 00:18:23

you're sharing is more kind of personal

experience and telling your story, Sure.

343

: 00:18:28

Like those might be brilliant for you,

but when you're wanting to grow your

344

: 00:18:32

business or grow your own podcast by

speaking on other people's podcasts,

345

: 00:18:35

I'd be looking for a really clear.

346

: 00:18:38

Like golden thread kind of

through line of those episodes.

347

: 00:18:41

So you can just like, Angie, your podcast

is a brilliant example of this, right?

348

: 00:18:46

It's called podcast that pays.

349

: 00:18:48

That is so obvious what it is,

hopefully that you're talking about.

350

: 00:18:52

And then even if you don't listen

to a single one of your episodes, if

351

: 00:18:56

you just scroll through every single

episode is so clearly thought about.

352

: 00:19:01

Here's something, you know, a

question you're likely to have if

353

: 00:19:04

you're starting a podcast, here's

to how to grow your podcast.

354

: 00:19:08

Here's how to get paid from your podcast.

355

: 00:19:10

That's what you're looking for

when, when you're scrolling.

356

: 00:19:13

And then I always suggest that people

listen to at least one or two episodes.

357

: 00:19:17

And if you don't want to listen to the

entire episode, just listen, at least to

358

: 00:19:20

the beginning and the end of the episodes

and just get a sense of things like.

359

: 00:19:26

What's the rapport like between

the host and the guest, you know,

360

: 00:19:31

they don't have to be best friends.

361

: 00:19:32

They don't have to know each other really

well, but you don't want it to sound

362

: 00:19:35

really awkward because then it kind of

suggests that maybe the host has got this

363

: 00:19:39

really chaotic process behind the scenes.

364

: 00:19:42

Maybe the guest has no idea.

365

: 00:19:44

What, what's going on or what

they're going to be asked.

366

: 00:19:47

That's not what you want for your

experience so have a bit of a listen.

367

: 00:19:51

And then another way that you can

really see the likelihood of trust

368

: 00:19:56

between the listeners and the host is

have a bit of a research of the host

369

: 00:20:01

like have a look at on social media.

370

: 00:20:04

Does there seem to be a

community around their business

371

: 00:20:07

or are they just broadcasting?

372

: 00:20:09

Um, do they have some kind of group

or presence that you can check out?

373

: 00:20:14

You know, we're kind of moving out of the

days of big Facebook groups, but there are

374

: 00:20:19

still people that like Angie, you've got.

375

: 00:20:21

Super engaged Facebook group around

your business or school is a new kind

376

: 00:20:26

of big platform that people are using

for groups, that kind of research.

377

: 00:20:32

And it doesn't need to take forever.

378

: 00:20:34

Like you could do all this research that

I've just said in what, like 15 minutes,

379

: 00:20:38

just really to get a sense of who the host

is and what kind of business they've got

380

: 00:20:43

and how much their audience trusts them.

381

: 00:20:46

If it's like tick, tick, tick, go for it.

382

: 00:20:48

Yeah.

383

: 00:20:48

This is like.

384

: 00:20:49

Podcasting 101 people.

385

: 00:20:52

, this is what people are looking for

when they're coming to your podcast

386

: 00:20:55

to determine whether they want to

come on your show and, . And I,

387

: 00:20:59

I love that you said, when we're

looking through this person's podcast,

388

: 00:21:05

just glancing and seeing, what

their episodes are, if it's like a

389

: 00:21:08

consistent topic, , is it organized?

390

: 00:21:10

Is it together?

391

: 00:21:10

And, the thing that I wrote down from

that is consistency builds trust.

392

: 00:21:14

It does.

393

: 00:21:15

It does.

394

: 00:21:18

I'd love it to not be true, but it's true.

395

: 00:21:20

It builds trust.

396

: 00:21:22

So if you want to build trust with

your audience and you want to attract

397

: 00:21:25

people that want to be guests and your

podcast, like consistency builds trust,

398

: 00:21:31

consistency in your messaging goes back

to what you are, , talking about a

399

: 00:21:34

messaging and, it will even spill into

selling your offers and things like that.

400

: 00:21:38

Consistency builds trust

on and off podcasts.

401

: 00:21:41

, So I really love that point,

that consistency builds trust.

402

: 00:21:44

And the other thing is, y'all, please

go and listen to these podcasts

403

: 00:21:48

that you're trying to be guests on.

404

: 00:21:50

, I know that this happens so

much because I see it happening,

405

: 00:21:53

where it's like, no clue.

406

: 00:21:56

Of what they're walking into of what the

podcast, like none of those things that

407

: 00:22:01

you've said, like people are not doing

any of this recon or any of this research.

408

: 00:22:05

Like they are just

hopping on these podcasts.

409

: 00:22:08

And I mean, , , I'm going to be honest.

410

: 00:22:10

Like when we were talking, I was like,

I can't go in a podcast if I ain't got a

411

: 00:22:13

podcast, Mike, cause I'm a podcast person.

412

: 00:22:15

So my brand, I can't go hop on

with somebody who's out here.

413

: 00:22:19

That sounds like they're in the

bathroom recording a podcast.

414

: 00:22:22

Like I can't do that for my brand.

415

: 00:22:24

Like, I'm not going to do that.

416

: 00:22:25

So I think that it just depends

again, back to your goals and those

417

: 00:22:29

kinds of things, but like what you,

what you're, what you're wanting to

418

: 00:22:33

accomplish, but you do need to listen.

419

: 00:22:35

And something I think when you were

saying that too, is how, how the host.

420

: 00:22:40

talks to their people.

421

: 00:22:42

I think you can tell in there

what kind of rapport they have.

422

: 00:22:46

Like I talk to my people like I know

them and they, I do, and they know me.

423

: 00:22:50

And we're like, we BFFs.

424

: 00:22:52

Like, but there are, you can

tell if there's that disconnect.

425

: 00:22:55

So I think that's really

important and just something for.

426

: 00:22:59

You , to look out for and you guys listen

for you to be able , to listen to,,

427

: 00:23:02

to determine that, that trust factor.

428

: 00:23:06

So that consistency is, is

there that rapport there?

429

: 00:23:11

And the other piece was the community that

they have, like building that community

430

: 00:23:15

around your podcast is important and being

able to see that someone else has that

431

: 00:23:20

community is, I think a great indicator.

432

: 00:23:23

So, I love that you said all that.

433

: 00:23:25

And I just wanted to kind

of recap that for people.

434

: 00:23:28

How do you, as a business person, you said

something earlier about the difference

435

: 00:23:34

between if you're trying to Be on a

podcast to grow your business versus

436

: 00:23:40

you're on there to just tell your story.

437

: 00:23:41

And it's more personal.

438

: 00:23:43

My question is, and I feel like this

is something that you help people do

439

: 00:23:48

and probably help do it within, , the

speakeasy, which , we'll talk about

440

: 00:23:51

your program in a little bit, but if

I am, because I think that story is

441

: 00:23:55

so compelling and being able to tell

your story, even as a business owner.

442

: 00:24:01

if I'm wanting to be on podcasts and I'm

wanting to show up and be this compelling

443

: 00:24:07

guest for this person, , shouldn't I

be pulling together a story that's kind

444

: 00:24:14

of a combination of Personal business.

445

: 00:24:18

, how do I begin to craft this?

446

: 00:24:20

If I'm going to pitch to you and

say, I'm coming on your podcast,

447

: 00:24:23

but like, what's my angle?

448

: 00:24:25

, don't you need to have sort of an angle?

449

: 00:24:28

So I'm this podcaster.

450

: 00:24:29

I, part of mine could be, I don't know.

451

: 00:24:32

I like, we could just use

me for an example, Natalie.

452

: 00:24:34

Like I started off.

453

: 00:24:36

The reason why I do

podcasting is because I.

454

: 00:24:39

I started a podcast as a life

coach, and that was the first

455

: 00:24:42

thing I did in my business.

456

: 00:24:43

That was the first marketing thing I

did in my business, which is like so

457

: 00:24:46

backwards from what everybody teaches.

458

: 00:24:48

And I got my first client from my podcast.

459

: 00:24:52

I started getting DMs like crazy of

people who listened to my podcast and

460

: 00:24:56

they were so impacted and they were like,

Oh my God, I made this . Insert big

461

: 00:25:00

life choice because I listened to you,

you've changed my life in this way.

462

: 00:25:05

And I was just , I'm getting chills

because , I felt so much pride in that.

463

: 00:25:10

And so I was making an impact and

all I was doing was just showing up.

464

: 00:25:14

I was talking to my car.

465

: 00:25:15

My sound was.

466

: 00:25:16

I was just showing up , and speaking

from my heart and these people

467

: 00:25:21

were being impacted and I was like.

468

: 00:25:22

Wait a minute.

469

: 00:25:24

Wait a minute.

470

: 00:25:25

This is really impactful.

471

: 00:25:26

This is really impactful platform.

472

: 00:25:28

And I looked around at all the

people in my audience and all the

473

: 00:25:32

people around me on my social media.

474

: 00:25:33

And I'm like, there's some

brilliant people here.

475

: 00:25:37

I, they need podcasts so that they

can get their brilliance out into

476

: 00:25:41

the world and they can make impact.

477

: 00:25:44

They got much more of an

impact I can make if I'm.

478

: 00:25:46

Helping these people make an impact like

I, what the ripple effect that I will

479

: 00:25:50

have, I can create even more impact.

480

: 00:25:52

So that's my sort of origin story

of how I switched from being a life

481

: 00:25:57

coach to talking about, I didn't

wake up and wanted to do podcast

482

: 00:26:01

editing or , it's bigger than that.

483

: 00:26:02

So that's kind of my story.

484

: 00:26:04

So how would I.

485

: 00:26:05

Take that and start to position

myself as this, like, here's my

486

: 00:26:10

story, but it ties into business.

487

: 00:26:12

, give me your thoughts , on that , and

don't you need to kind of do that?

488

: 00:26:15

Right.

489

: 00:26:15

Yeah, you do.

490

: 00:26:16

All right.

491

: 00:26:16

So what we're going to do, Angie,

is we're going to talk about all the

492

: 00:26:19

reasons your origin story is flawless.

493

: 00:26:23

It's such a fucking good example.

494

: 00:26:25

And let me pull out why because I'm

sure people listening are like, yeah.

495

: 00:26:29

Yeah.

496

: 00:26:29

Yeah.

497

: 00:26:30

Oh my god.

498

: 00:26:30

That sounds so good.

499

: 00:26:32

Let me tell you why it's so good.

500

: 00:26:35

So a few different things

that you've done there.

501

: 00:26:38

All right.

502

: 00:26:38

One of them is you, you

led with your mission.

503

: 00:26:42

Right.

504

: 00:26:42

So inside the speakeasy, I

call it manifesto messaging.

505

: 00:26:46

And it's that sense of like leading

with your mission, bringing people

506

: 00:26:50

behind you, inviting them in

to join in with your manifesto.

507

: 00:26:53

Your manifesto, Angie was so clear

that everyone else out there is

508

: 00:26:58

saying, Oh no, don't start a podcast

for the first thing, and you're out

509

: 00:27:01

there changing lives from day one.

510

: 00:27:03

Like that is that's such a powerful.

511

: 00:27:06

Call to action in the true,

mission sense of call to action.

512

: 00:27:09

I don't mean buy my thing,

call to action that we all use.

513

: 00:27:12

And it also shows such a strong

point of view that you are, you're

514

: 00:27:18

saying something different to what

the industry in general is saying.

515

: 00:27:22

Normally people say, wait

till you're super experienced.

516

: 00:27:25

Wait until you've got a signature

offer, da, da, da, da, da.

517

: 00:27:28

And then start your podcast.

518

: 00:27:29

You're like, no, like this is how

we can use this marketing channel.

519

: 00:27:33

So that's one thing you did amazingly

well was you led with mission.

520

: 00:27:36

Another thing you did really well was

you used what I call moments, which

521

: 00:27:41

are these little like micro stories

or micro examples within the bigger

522

: 00:27:46

story to make it so specific to you.

523

: 00:27:50

So.

524

: 00:27:51

I don't know if you think of like

a different kind of origin story,

525

: 00:27:54

you know, so often we hear this.

526

: 00:27:56

Oh, I was working in

corporate and I got burnt out.

527

: 00:27:59

So I started my business and now I do.

528

: 00:28:02

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

529

: 00:28:04

Like it's a, it's a story.

530

: 00:28:05

So many of us have got, and it is

so valid, but it falls a little bit

531

: 00:28:09

flat because we've heard so many

versions of that same story before.

532

: 00:28:13

Whereas imagine if instead of

saying it like that, you said.

533

: 00:28:17

Oh my God.

534

: 00:28:17

So there was this moment

I walked into work.

535

: 00:28:19

It was a Monday morning.

536

: 00:28:21

I hadn't even had my morning coffee.

537

: 00:28:24

Um, Matt from accounts was like,

Natalie, I need to talk to you.

538

: 00:28:27

And in that moment I was like,

no, something needs to change.

539

: 00:28:31

And that's when my business was bought.

540

: 00:28:33

They tell the same story, right?

541

: 00:28:35

Yeah, they are so different to listen to.

542

: 00:28:38

And it's because of the specificity

and I call them moments.

543

: 00:28:42

And Angie you had moments where you talked

about getting DMS from your women, and

544

: 00:28:47

even the way you said, and they told me

they were insert big life choice here.

545

: 00:28:52

Yeah, it's funny, it's relatable.

546

: 00:28:55

Yeah.

547

: 00:28:56

You're just a brilliant storyteller.

548

: 00:28:57

And there are two other things that

you did to make that a really, not

549

: 00:29:03

just an enjoyable story to listen

to, but a story that builds your

550

: 00:29:06

credibility, that shares something

about your point of view, and that

551

: 00:29:10

really invites trust from the listener.

552

: 00:29:14

They're the kind of origin

stories that we want.

553

: 00:29:17

I love that.

554

: 00:29:18

And thank you for that.

555

: 00:29:19

And I can add on to that.

556

: 00:29:21

The moment when it's super dramatic,

, there was a moment when you said that

557

: 00:29:26

I was like, Oh, when I was working in

corporate, when I was working in New

558

: 00:29:31

York city, and I was had this life

that was quote unquote successful.

559

: 00:29:35

And I was making over six figures

and everybody was so proud of me.

560

: 00:29:40

And I was just not into it.

561

: 00:29:43

And one day I was riding

the train to my job.

562

: 00:29:47

And I quit my job on the,

, platform, subway platform in

563

: 00:29:52

New York City, in Times Square.

564

: 00:29:54

Okay.

565

: 00:29:54

How about that for a moment?

566

: 00:29:56

That's another moment.

567

: 00:29:57

Mic drop.

568

: 00:29:58

That's another moment.

569

: 00:29:59

And then I called my sister in law

and was like, Hey, I just quit my job.

570

: 00:30:03

I have no plan.

571

: 00:30:05

Meet me at Grand Central Station.

572

: 00:30:07

And let's have drinks.

573

: 00:30:10

I need lots of drinks.

574

: 00:30:11

And so that's, that's how my next

evolution of my life was, you know,

575

: 00:30:16

bored when I was like, this is just crap.

576

: 00:30:18

I don't want to do this.

577

: 00:30:19

But anyway, I love that.

578

: 00:30:21

And I love that , you mentioned Being

a good storyteller because that also

579

: 00:30:26

builds trust it gets people to get to

know you and feel more connected to you.

580

: 00:30:31

And I think that's really important when

you're Guesting and also when you are

581

: 00:30:38

like having your own podcast, so someone

asked me this question Not too long ago

582

: 00:30:42

in My DMS, I believe, and it was around

because being a good storyteller, for

583

: 00:30:49

me, a lot of the stuff comes natural.

584

: 00:30:51

I will just be honest.

585

: 00:30:53

You guys like I, it doesn't

come natural for everybody.

586

: 00:30:56

It really, really doesn't.

587

: 00:30:58

And that was something

that I had to learn.

588

: 00:30:59

In what I do is that podcasting

and podcast skills don't come

589

: 00:31:04

natural to a lot of people.

590

: 00:31:06

Like being able to like create

an episode that is engaging and

591

: 00:31:11

that has a point and that serves a

purpose and that lands the plane.

592

: 00:31:16

Like that's my new like thing,

land the damn plane people.

593

: 00:31:18

What is the damn point?

594

: 00:31:21

And interviewing people is a skill

and you get, you, you hone it

595

: 00:31:24

and you have to get better at it.

596

: 00:31:26

So someone asked me about, um,

and just back up real quick, I'm

597

: 00:31:32

very open and can be very open.

598

: 00:31:35

And , I just don't care

about people's opinions.

599

: 00:31:40

in a way that will throw me off track

from being able to say what I want to say.

600

: 00:31:46

So I do care.

601

: 00:31:47

There's a little care.

602

: 00:31:48

I'm not gonna say I don't care at all, but

it doesn't, not enough to hinder me from

603

: 00:31:53

being my authentic, who I am raw self.

604

: 00:31:57

And there are people who really do

struggle with That part with the

605

: 00:32:03

being really authentic , and real

and being able to share their story.

606

: 00:32:08

And I had someone ask me, how do

you share something really personal?

607

: 00:32:14

How do you share this personal thing?

608

: 00:32:16

, how do you get over this hump when

maybe it could bring harm to others?

609

: 00:32:22

Who are maybe there's others who are part

of your story that you don't necessarily

610

: 00:32:25

want to talk about and maybe that's

something that I think it gets people

611

: 00:32:30

stuck sometimes in their messaging

and in their storytelling because they

612

: 00:32:33

think that they're scared to talk about

it or it's something maybe they have

613

: 00:32:36

something really powerful to say but It

involves other people or they're worried

614

: 00:32:40

about what other people would think.

615

: 00:32:41

And you probably run into this

too, as you're helping people craft

616

: 00:32:44

their story and their messaging.

617

: 00:32:46

So what would you say to someone who's

really struggling with this idea of

618

: 00:32:51

how authentic, how much story, how do

I create this compelling story, maybe

619

: 00:32:57

without stepping on toes or should I just.

620

: 00:33:00

Not worry about it.

621

: 00:33:01

Should I say, fuck it?

622

: 00:33:01

What would you say to someone who's in

this place of, I want to be authentic.

623

: 00:33:05

I want to be a better storyteller, but

I feel like I don't know , how much to

624

: 00:33:09

tell what to include, like that sort of

thing, or it's kind of in that place of

625

: 00:33:12

being a little bit scared or apprehensive.

626

: 00:33:14

Yeah.

627

: 00:33:15

So we coach on this all

the time in this week.

628

: 00:33:18

And the biggest thing that I would

say is have a sense of what you

629

: 00:33:22

want to share and what you don't

want to share before you hit record.

630

: 00:33:26

So if you're like Angie, and you're

like, fuck it, I'll just share what comes

631

: 00:33:30

up in the moment, and I'm not going to

have a massive vulnerability hangover.

632

: 00:33:34

I'm all good.

633

: 00:33:35

Then.

634

: 00:33:35

Do that.

635

: 00:33:36

Don't over prepare and kind of make it

sound a bit more forced than it needs to.

636

: 00:33:42

But if you're somebody like

Angie's just been describing

637

: 00:33:45

that either is worried about not

sharing enough or sharing too much.

638

: 00:33:49

Your secret weapon is preparing.

639

: 00:33:52

Before the interviews, don't use the

interview where you're recording and

640

: 00:33:56

where, so where all of the brilliant

things about podcast guesting, like

641

: 00:34:00

it's evergreen and you want to record

once and people can find you forever.

642

: 00:34:04

Don't use those things against yourself.

643

: 00:34:06

Don't share something that

is now on the internet.

644

: 00:34:09

And you're like, Oh, I really

wish I hadn't said that.

645

: 00:34:12

I mean, if you, if that really happens,

you can ask the host to edit it out.

646

: 00:34:17

. The best thing to do is have a real sense

of what details do you want to share.

647

: 00:34:23

So in that example, which details are

yours to share and which details maybe

648

: 00:34:28

other people's to share or not share.

649

: 00:34:31

And then you can craft the story

around what you do want to share.

650

: 00:34:35

And there's so much that you can

say in a story, leaving pretty big

651

: 00:34:39

gaps, but doing it in a way that

invites curiosity from the listener.

652

: 00:34:44

And you don't have to

fill those gaps for them.

653

: 00:34:46

you don't feel like you have to

say absolutely everything , to

654

: 00:34:49

make it a great story.

655

: 00:34:51

A bit of suspense can be a brilliant

element to have in stories as well.

656

: 00:34:56

. And I like that.

657

: 00:34:57

, here's your permission slip you get

to decide what you want to divulge and

658

: 00:35:03

how open about something you want to be

just because you see Angie over here,

659

: 00:35:08

just Balls to the wall, doesn't care,

like saying everything she wants to

660

: 00:35:12

say, like, it doesn't have to be you.

661

: 00:35:14

You don't have to have my same personality

to be successful at crafting your story.

662

: 00:35:20

You don't have to have to be open and

tell every single detail of your life.

663

: 00:35:26

And people would be, you would be

shocked at how private I am, even

664

: 00:35:31

though I seem so public, like people

would be really shocked at that.

665

: 00:35:36

At how, what I share is things that are

easy for me to share, but there are a

666

: 00:35:42

lot of things that I keep for myself and

there are a lot of ways that I am still

667

: 00:35:49

a very private person, even though I show

up very authentic and raw and there are

668

: 00:35:55

a lot of things that I keep for myself.

669

: 00:35:56

And you would be, you would be, people

would be surprised because I seem

670

: 00:35:59

just so extroverted and like, yeah,

here, whatever I talk about, whatever.

671

: 00:36:03

But I there, I am actually.

672

: 00:36:06

A much more private person and,

and I'm much, I, I can be a shy

673

: 00:36:10

person too, which is like, blues.

674

: 00:36:12

So hard to believe.

675

: 00:36:15

I can be, I'm telling you.

676

: 00:36:17

And that's actually, I

used to be really shy.

677

: 00:36:20

And in 10th grade, 10th grade,

I decided, I made a decision.

678

: 00:36:24

I was like, you know what?

679

: 00:36:24

I'm not going to be shy anymore.

680

: 00:36:25

Like forget it.

681

: 00:36:27

And I was at a football game and there

was these guys who were sitting in

682

: 00:36:31

front of me and this was like my

pivotal, I'm not shy anymore moment.

683

: 00:36:35

And there was these guys sitting

in front of me and one of the

684

: 00:36:37

guys kept like rubbing his head.

685

: 00:36:39

Like he had a headache.

686

: 00:36:41

I don't know why this had to be

my unshy moment, but I offered

687

: 00:36:45

the guy to rub his head for him.

688

: 00:36:52

A random stranger now, granted,

he was a very cute guy.

689

: 00:36:55

Okay.

690

: 00:36:55

There was like, it was a little

more motivation in there just

691

: 00:36:58

than a random guy, cute guy.

692

: 00:37:01

And he was like, his head was hurting

and I was like, Hey, did your head hurt?

693

: 00:37:04

You want me to rub it for you?

694

: 00:37:05

And I don't know why that was my

moment, but like that was my moment.

695

: 00:37:09

And then After that, it was, it was over.

696

: 00:37:12

I was like, I got to get over this hump.

697

: 00:37:13

No more shy Angie.

698

: 00:37:14

And so from then on, I've been

like, I went really in the opposite

699

: 00:37:19

direction, but there are still little

moments where I can be, I can be shy.

700

: 00:37:25

And so it's just, it's interesting,

but we've mentioned a couple

701

: 00:37:29

times here about the speakeasy.

702

: 00:37:33

And I really want , to

talk about, your program.

703

: 00:37:37

And not just because it's like

about to open cart, because

704

: 00:37:41

obviously this will be evergreen.

705

: 00:37:43

And this will be here, but I, I just

really, what you teach and how you

706

: 00:37:50

teach podcast guesting is, it just

feels like such a holistic thing

707

: 00:37:55

and such something that you can

take beyond just Podcast guesting.

708

: 00:38:00

Like, these are lessons that you

can bring to your own podcast.

709

: 00:38:03

These are lessons that you can

weave into your messaging in general

710

: 00:38:08

and your business and everything.

711

: 00:38:09

People are always shocked when they

do calls with me and it's like I'm

712

: 00:38:14

digging into their messaging like

when we're doing their podcast.

713

: 00:38:16

Like it could because you have to, right?

714

: 00:38:19

Like, that's a big part of it is

storytelling and your messaging on

715

: 00:38:22

your own podcast and being on others.

716

: 00:38:24

And so I really love the

way that you teach this.

717

: 00:38:27

So I, I want to talk more about

the speakeasy and what, what it is

718

: 00:38:33

and why you, I guess, first I want

to ask, what made you create this?

719

: 00:38:38

Like, why did you create

this, this program?

720

: 00:38:41

What need did you see?

721

: 00:38:45

Yeah, so I think part of this is

from my own life that before I

722

: 00:38:50

started my business, I was director

of partnerships for a nonprofit.

723

: 00:38:54

And that was all about influencing.

724

: 00:38:56

So I was using messaging and speaking,

I was doing public speaking, I was doing

725

: 00:39:03

private meetings with influential people

trying to influence policy change.

726

: 00:39:07

And I just love those skills like they,

I can see so many times in my own life

727

: 00:39:13

and other people's lives where having

the ability to advocate for yourself

728

: 00:39:17

and influence somebody and speak up

for yourself and be articulate and

729

: 00:39:22

encourage people to listen to you and

take notice of what you're saying.

730

: 00:39:27

They're just really fucking good

life skills to have in business.

731

: 00:39:30

They're essential, but even, I've

got personal stories that I could

732

: 00:39:34

tell around where Having those

skills have changed my life.

733

: 00:39:39

And I used to be a social worker.

734

: 00:39:41

I've seen, I've seen those skills change

women's life when they leave a violent

735

: 00:39:47

partner or kids life when you know

when they can advocate for themselves

736

: 00:39:52

around what they want in terms of

their care, all that kind of stuff.

737

: 00:39:55

So that's the kind of

background that I brought to it.

738

: 00:39:57

And then when I started my business.

739

: 00:40:01

Visibility coaching and I'm

laughing because I didn't really

740

: 00:40:04

know what I meant by that.

741

: 00:40:04

And so no one else did.

742

: 00:40:06

So like, you can see how that went, right.

743

: 00:40:10

But what I meant was like

partnerships, development and

744

: 00:40:12

messaging, that kind of stuff.

745

: 00:40:13

And I just started to see this.

746

: 00:40:16

Pattern with my clients where

they were like, all I want

747

: 00:40:19

to do is speak on podcasts.

748

: 00:40:20

Can we do that?

749

: 00:40:21

And I was like, yeah, of

course we can do that.

750

: 00:40:22

I know how to pitch.

751

: 00:40:23

I know how to develop a persuasive

message, all that kind of stuff.

752

: 00:40:27

So I started by doing VIP days

and then I got asked, can you

753

: 00:40:31

make this into a group program?

754

: 00:40:33

And so it used to be called the pod squad.

755

: 00:40:35

It was a pop up that I

did as the pod squad.

756

: 00:40:38

And then it's just grown and evolved.

757

: 00:40:41

Now it's the speakeasy and now it's

serving this community of amazing

758

: 00:40:45

entrepreneurs that are growing their

business and speaking on podcasts

759

: 00:40:49

and sharing their point of view and

shaping this wild west of online

760

: 00:40:54

business that we all work in.

761

: 00:40:56

And I just love it.

762

: 00:40:58

I really, really love it.

763

: 00:41:00

So that's why That's why it's continued.

764

: 00:41:03

And you can see the growth in when,

when people dial in their messaging

765

: 00:41:08

for podcast guesting, it doesn't

just stop at podcast guesting.

766

: 00:41:11

Like you'll see this with

your podcast as well.

767

: 00:41:13

Like sure their podcast is

shit hot, but then it ripples

768

: 00:41:17

through their whole business.

769

: 00:41:19

And I love that.

770

: 00:41:20

I love seeing that, that ripple

effect through how people

771

: 00:41:24

show up and their confidence.

772

: 00:41:25

And, and of course, going

on a podcast tour like that.

773

: 00:41:28

Yeah.

774

: 00:41:29

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree.

775

: 00:41:32

People are always shocked.

776

: 00:41:34

Like I said, when they work with

me, because this is something that

777

: 00:41:38

ripples through your business, that

ripples through your messaging.

778

: 00:41:41

And I do talk also a lot about that

mission based marketing and . How to

779

: 00:41:47

get people hooked into your mission

because , everybody loves a good

780

: 00:41:51

mission to sink their teeth into that

they can come along with you for the

781

: 00:41:54

ride with and , people love that.

782

: 00:41:57

So tell us more about, , why so

now we know, , where the speakeasy

783

: 00:42:01

came from, but , who is this for?

784

: 00:42:03

And, and what are some of the things

that you work on inside of the program?

785

: 00:42:08

Yeah, so it's for

changemaker entrepreneurs.

786

: 00:42:12

Is the way that I say it.

787

: 00:42:13

And by that, I mean, entrepreneurs

with a mission, um, everyone

788

: 00:42:16

inside the speakeasy.

789

: 00:42:18

Most people are coaches or

service based providers.

790

: 00:42:21

We've got all sorts of people in there.

791

: 00:42:23

Copywriters, Facebook ads,

strategists, designers, I know

792

: 00:42:27

all sorts of people in there.

793

: 00:42:29

But what unites everybody is And most of

them don't want to be on social media.

794

: 00:42:34

I don't want to rely on social media.

795

: 00:42:37

So then you need to find

another way of finding people.

796

: 00:42:40

They are people who want to talk

about something that matters to

797

: 00:42:44

them, who want to share nuance,

who want to be in conversation.

798

: 00:42:48

They don't like that kind of broadcast y

feeling that you get from social media.

799

: 00:42:52

So that's who's in there.

800

: 00:42:53

And then, I mean, it's set up like

a pretty traditional group program

801

: 00:42:57

that you'd see on the online streets.

802

: 00:43:00

It's, you know, as soon as you

join, you get access to the online

803

: 00:43:04

portal and the curriculum inside

the portal takes you through every

804

: 00:43:07

single step from, yeah, sure.

805

: 00:43:10

I want to speak on podcasts.

806

: 00:43:12

I have no idea what I'm doing.

807

: 00:43:13

To having your messaging sorted,

knowing exactly how to pitch, knowing

808

: 00:43:17

how to find aligned podcasts, knowing

what it is about you specifically

809

: 00:43:22

that makes a brilliant guest.

810

: 00:43:24

And then ultimately going

on your podcast tour.

811

: 00:43:27

So there's live coaching.

812

: 00:43:28

There's a community space.

813

: 00:43:29

It just gives you everything

you need to grow your business.

814

: 00:43:33

Right.

815

: 00:43:34

I love it.

816

: 00:43:35

And of course , it's something that,

, I've never personally gone through it.

817

: 00:43:40

I'm thinking about it just so you know,

I need to come and get into this thing.

818

: 00:43:45

I need to come and get into this

speakeasy just because, , , like I

819

: 00:43:49

said, I'm going on a podcast tour.

820

: 00:43:51

I, this, even just this chat, Natalie,

I've got notes and just like note to

821

: 00:43:56

all of you podcast hosts out here who are

doing interviews, write notes , as you're

822

: 00:44:01

interviewing and refer back to your notes.

823

: 00:44:03

It's going to help you create a

better episode so that you can

824

: 00:44:06

say, Oh, you just said X, Y, Z.

825

: 00:44:09

Let's talk deeper on that.

826

: 00:44:10

A lot of people don't do that.

827

: 00:44:11

So just give me a note.

828

: 00:44:12

I always have a ton of notes, but in this,

it just, even just talking to you, I've

829

: 00:44:17

been able to, in my mind, figure out.

830

: 00:44:21

I think I know what I'm going

to pitch to people already.

831

: 00:44:24

I love that.

832

: 00:44:26

I think I know what my, I

think I know what my hook is.

833

: 00:44:29

I think I know what my signature talk is.

834

: 00:44:32

And how to begin to refine

that, to pitch that to people.

835

: 00:44:38

And I could see it working for lots

of people's audiences that are far and

836

: 00:44:41

wide beyond, , beyond even business,

cause it's about how to bring your

837

: 00:44:46

brilliance, your impact, , and I, of

course, I talk about it through using

838

: 00:44:50

podcasting, but it's deeper than that.

839

: 00:44:52

Which is what I love that you

do and what you, what you teach.

840

: 00:44:56

So if you guys are listening and

you are thinking about, you know,

841

: 00:45:02

working with Natalie and you want to

dip your toes into podcast guesting

842

: 00:45:06

before you do your podcast or as

using it as a growth strategy.

843

: 00:45:10

I think , this is such a great offer and a

great way to, , to get yourself out there.

844

: 00:45:16

And I just believe in, I

believe in your mission.

845

: 00:45:20

I believe in how you teach this.

846

: 00:45:21

And.

847

: 00:45:22

It to me, it's better than, and yes,

you, I know you help with the pitches,

848

: 00:45:28

but it's better than just hiring someone

who's just pitching you, who's not helping

849

: 00:45:33

you perfect and craft this and really

understand how to pull this out of you.

850

: 00:45:38

And so I would just, I think

that it's such a benefit for

851

: 00:45:44

all areas of your business.

852

: 00:45:46

Yeah.

853

: 00:45:46

And I think there's so much value

in developing your own messaging

854

: 00:45:49

and not outsourcing it in the same

way that I think you should only

855

: 00:45:53

ever hire a copywriter once you've

already done the work to have your

856

: 00:45:56

message, know what your voice is.

857

: 00:45:58

Otherwise you're just giving over the

power to somebody else to kind of design,

858

: 00:46:04

how people experience your business.

859

: 00:46:06

And I think Taking the time to

be supported, to develop your own

860

: 00:46:11

messaging for starting your own

podcast or guesting on podcasts is

861

: 00:46:15

going to ripple through your business.

862

: 00:46:16

And you're going to end up with something

that is more you and more powerful

863

: 00:46:22

than anyone else could create for you.

864

: 00:46:24

Yeah.

865

: 00:46:25

I, I 100 percent agree with that.

866

: 00:46:28

So tell us, Natalie, we're so happy.

867

: 00:46:29

I'm so appreciative that you decided

to do this on the, on a whim with me,

868

: 00:46:33

because that's just how I operate.

869

: 00:46:36

We finally got it going, but

tell everyone, how can we.

870

: 00:46:40

Find you.

871

: 00:46:41

How can we find information

on the speakeasy?

872

: 00:46:44

Obviously, I will put

that into the show notes.

873

: 00:46:48

, but tell us how we can,

connect with you further.

874

: 00:46:50

Yeah, sure.

875

: 00:46:52

So my website is nataliecousa.

876

: 00:46:54

com.

877

: 00:46:55

Cousa is K O U S S A.

878

: 00:46:57

The speakeasy is there of course, but if

you are joining, so if it's open when you

879

: 00:47:03

listen to this episode or if it's, if it's

closed, you can just join the wait list.

880

: 00:47:07

, use the link in the show notes

because Angie is a referral

881

: 00:47:11

partner for the speakeasy.

882

: 00:47:12

So I would love you to use Angie's link.

883

: 00:47:15

, but yeah, nataliecousa.

884

: 00:47:16

com all the show notes is.

885

: 00:47:18

And I did talk about that.

886

: 00:47:19

I think I'm going to put a little, I

might put like a bonus for joining.

887

: 00:47:23

So you get something from me as well

if you join, ,, through my link.

888

: 00:47:26

So check out the, , link in

the show notes, you guys.

889

: 00:47:28

And thank you so much,

Natalie, for being here.

890

: 00:47:31

I loved catching up with you

and sharing your, sharing your

891

: 00:47:35

brilliance with the audience.

892

: 00:47:37

I appreciate it so much.

893

: 00:47:39

Thanks, Angie.